The Phoenix Project - Dura Ace RD 7800 GS Rear Derailleur

Background on The Phoenix Project is available here and here.

There was never a whole lot of question about what rear derailleur I would get. It had to have enough capacity for a triple and be rock solid reliable. I had been very pleased with the durability and smooth shifting of my Dura Ace RD 7700 GS. Alas, these are only infrequently available new, so I moved on to the RD 7800 GS:

The specs on it are max rear cog of 27 teeth and chain wrap of 37 teeth.  This model, incidentally, is the last of the triple Dura Ace rear derailleurs.  And even if it wasn't, I would prefer the shiny silver-titanium finish and smooth styling to the angular/matte styling of the 7900 series.

Street Cred

Dura Ace rear derailleurs are the best in the world in my book and in lots of other ones.

Gizmo Lust

Gosh, where do we start?  Sealed bearing pulleys, cold forged Dura-Luminum body?  Or how about the flourine coated link pins for lower friction shifting?  And we shouldn't forget the polymer push plate for smoother shifting.

But all that functional nonsense aside, the fit and finish on this derailleur is exquisite, reminiscent of the good old days of Campagnolo C-Record cycling jewelry:

Crimethink

The combination of this derailleur with the Ultegra CS-6500 12/27 cassette and the Dura Ace SL-7700 downtube shifters is putting the 1985 Trek 620 dangerously close to Total Shimano Integration.

Tweed Factor

If I were going to throw down for a Rivendell frame (and be patient, I will someday, especially if they go back to level top tubes), this is exactly the rear mech I would put on it.

I suspect I'm not in the minority on this.  Searching around the web, there are lots more occurrences of Dura Ace rear derailleurs on older models, i.e, level top tube frames like Rambouillet, than on their more recent offerings.

So come on Rivendell, enough with the 650b, double top tube, hyper expensive frames adorned with cheap component drill.

Phony Accent

X

This is good old Dura Ace, not a copy of anything.

Lily Gilding

Tough call on the lily gilding.  This was expensive, no doubt.  However, it was cheaper than for what I've recently sold a few NOS Suntour 1st Generation Cyclone rear derailleurs.

Plus, you get a lot of value beyond the Dura Ace name on the part.  Here is an interesting comparison of various Ultegra and Dura Ace components specifically trying to determine whether the price differential is worth it.

Honorable Mention

I really wanted to love the Shimano T661 rear derailleur.  It supposedly handles rear clusters up to 36 teeth with a 43 tooth chain wrap capacity:

The 36 tooth max cog capacity on this one is very appealing, especially when I was considering running a wide range compact double.  But as we shall see in a future post, I've moved on from that concept and regressed to a traditional triple with a closer range rear cluster so that I can have some really low gears and tight gear spacing without having a bunch of front derailleur shifting.

This wasn't before I picked up a couple of these derailleurs and some HG61 12/36 cassettes, though, so if I'm ever pulling logging trucks up a mountain somewhere I can just slap one of these on and be good to go.

Running Tally

$3628 USD

We bring forward $3499.  I paid $129 USD inclusive of shipping from some obscure bike shop that was blowing out their remaining stock on Ebay.  This was a bit of a bargain, as these seem to be going for around $160 USD these days.  I recommend picking up one or two of these while they are still available from retail joints as, again, they are the last of the Dura Ace long cage derailleurs.

Organ Sales

$259 USD

Geez, been a while for the Organ Sales section.  We bring forward $103 USD. I sold the Shimano FC-6206 crankset for $110 and the Shimano BR-MC70 cantilever brakes for $46.

The Sausage Factory

There are a lot of horror stories about threading the derailleur cable through the inside of the chain stay on bikes with this configuration.  The Internet abounds with tales of an afternoon spent fishing around trying to feed it through so that it meets the outgoing hole, using magnets and other schemes.  However, it was simple and direct on this bike. 

I do need a tighter fitting step-down ferrule.  An unstepped 5mm is too large for the inset at the end of the chainstay and the 5mm to 3mm step down ferrule that accompanied the derailleur is a bit loose fitting.

The Phoenix Project - First Sea Trials

Background on The Phoenix Project is available here and here.

We're getting a little ahead of ourselves here since we still have some componentry to discuss, dissect, and in at least on case, totally flame. But today The Phoenix Project 1985 Trek 620 went on a first ride.

I've been slowly wrenching this together in between blog posts and the wrenching has gotten a bit ahead of the posts. Today, I decided I saw daylight and could take a first ride before my wife and son return to Japan. So I hitched up the trailer and little Otaku Jr. and I rode to Bethesda and back, about a 10 mile ride.

Here is the 1985 Trek 620 as it stands today, I didn't have toe clips and straps for the ride:

You can see I've gone with mustardy yellow brake cable housings.

Little Otaku Jr. is not so little anymore at 7 years old, but he still fits into the trailer.  We stopped at the Rock Creek Trestle, a traditional bike photography point.  The late afternoon light was a little harsh:

No issues on the ride other than having to tighten the seatpost clamp a smidge.

The Berthoud Aravis saddle is very firm but seems agreable.  The Dura Ace SL-7700 shifters are buttery smooth in friction mode, I'm very impressed with these.

The Sugino OX801D crankset deserves a bit of discussion.  First is what I didn't notice.  Regular readers may recall that I ordered these in 160mm arm length.  I had ridden several miles before I remembered this fact and that I should be taking notice of the difference.  That alone is a testament to how little effect I noticed from the short arm length.

Between the crank construction and the external bottom bracket bearings, these babies are very stiff.  The low Q-Factor of 145mm is noticeable by my knees occasionally brushing the seatpost water bottle.  And all the shift assist gimcrackery on the rings makes the shifting from the 30 to the 46 ring very simple and flawless.

As for that 30 ring, in combination with a 27 tooth max cog in the rear the lowest gear is about 30 gear inches.  This was ok for pulling a 7 year old in a trailer on not too hilly ground, but it is clear that hillier loaded riding is going to need a lower gear.  But it is fine for lightly loaded riding around Washington DC.

The Royce Titan Venus hubs roll smoothly.  At first, the freehub was nearly silent but after a few miles of working itself in, it developed a rather louder click when freewheeling.  I actually prefer this as it notifies pedestrians of my approach.

Overall, everything worked flawlessly.  Following this ride, I puttered around the bike making some minor adjustments.  The course was mostly unpaved gravel, an effective stress relieving exercise, but the rims are still perfectly true so I gave myself an attaboy for my wheelbuilding.

In any event, there are still some major components to be reviewed, so stay tuned.

The Phoenix Project - Sugino OX801D Compact Plus Crankset

Background on The Phoenix Project is available here and here.

As alluded to in a previous post, I have a Sugino OX801D currently installed on the 1985 Trek 620 project bike.

The most novel feature of this crank extends the conventional compact double paradigm by offering a 74mm BCD drilling in addition to the typical 110mm BCD arms found on most conventional compact doubles.  This allows a truly wide range compact double.

Interestingly enough, the U.S. based retailers only offer it with both rings as 110 BCD.  I had to order from Japan to get one with a 110mm outer ring and a 74mm inner ring - I got this in 46/30.

As you can see, this is a external bearing bottom bracket type.  The Sugino OX801D does come with a Sugino bottom bracket, but is compatible with recent Shimano 105/Ultegra/Dura Ace external bottom brackets:

And as a nice touch, the non-drive side cap has an allen head fitting rather than some special tool.

Another interesting feature of this crank is that the spider is outboard of the large ring, much like the old Mavic Starfish cranks:

Another very unconventional aspect of this crank is that I ordered it in 160mm crank arm length.

I had been rolling around with 165mm cranks on my Fuji America and I was pleased with that plus various online crank length calculators suggested that the universe would not implode if I tried some 160mm cranks.  And finally, the 1985 Trek 620 is a bit tight on the toe clip overlap situation so some shorter cranks may help in this department.

Overall, this crankset is an experiment - wide range compact double, external bottom bracket, and short crankarms.  Ultimately, this crankset will likely end up on my wife's bike - she is rather petite, I carry all the baggage, and navigating a triple is irksome for her, so a wide range compact double with short arms is just the thing for her.  I've already ordered a conventional triple crank, but for now The Phoenix Project will be rolling with the Sugino OX801D.

Street Cred

Sugino has sterling credentials for making high quality products.

Gizmo Lust

The Sugino is a unique piece of work with the external spider and 110/74 options on a compact double.  The claimed Q-factor is a very low 145mm and the claimed weight, including bottom bracket, is a very low 787 grams. Beyond all that, the fit and finish are excellent:

And let's not forget all the extravagant shift assist engravings:

Crimethink

There is a whole pile of unconventionality here, again the aforementioned external spider, external bottom bracket, and simply the fact of being a compact double, although this is becoming much less controversial.

Tweed Factor

X

Way too expensive and flashy and externally bottom bracketed for the Riv set.

Phony Accent

X

The only thing this crank remotely resembles is a Mavic Starfish and the similarity is very slight.  This is definitely a Sugino original.

Lily Gilding

When the Sugino OX801D first hit the streets, there was a huge amount of bellyaching about the price.  But that was simply because in recent years the Sugino offerings encountered stateside tended to be lower rung offerings, such as the wonderful and economical XD series of triples.  But compared against high end cranksets, which the Sugino OX801D assuredly is, the price is not nearly so astronomical.

Running Tally

$3499 USD

We bring forward $3015 USD.  U.S. retailers are selling the Sugino OX801D for around $550 USD.  However, I managed to purchase mine before the latest lurch downward of the dollar against the yen for $484 USD inclusive of shipping from Alex's Cycles in Osaka, Japan.  The shipping got it here in 2 days, if you can believe that.

The Sausage Factory